[Pydotorg-redesign] Some logo attempts

[Oktay Safak]

Hi everybody,

I tried to capture some ideas of mine for a new logo. You can see them at:

Loading Image...

I had many constraints in mind but to summarize: The new logo needs to
convey Python's character and traits: a modern, elegant, simple yet
beautiful, lean but powerful programming language.(As Guido pointed out, a
design needs character and an appropriate one) The designs are meant to be
friendly and eye-catching for newcomers to the language, as well as making a
strong professional impression on enterprise software business manager -
types (decision makers). Since the logo will have a big influence in
dictating other elements of design on the road to designing a new site and
finding a matching visual identity for Python, it has to be simple and
flexible and it should offer variety. Blah, blah, blah...

As you'll see, they are mostly variations on a theme. Lack of time...
Different avenues should be explored too.

The spiral is a logarithmic spiral but it's there just as an idea and I
didn't have the time to work on it or on something else that's better. I
hope I'll have some free time in the weekend, then I'll give it another go.
It's supposed to represent the above mentioned qualities of Python as well
as representing Python's steady growth and accelerating march to excellence
:-P if you take it, that's ;-P (reality: It's there because it's a neat
symbol)

Suggestions and criticisms welcome.

Regards,

Oktay

[A.M. Kuchling]

The spiral is a logarithmic spiral but it's there just as an idea ...

I quite like the concept. The grey colour and outlined font also
looks quite dignified; sans-serif seems preferable.

While I'm at it: someone suggested "Infinite possibilities" as a
slogan, and the more I think about, the better it seems. It's short,
only two words long, and it captures the wide range of applications
Python spans, from teaching kids to program, to writing quick one-off
scripts, to building elaborate business-critical systems. It lends
itself to logo ideas (infinity symbols, open spirals, infinite lines).
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

--amk

[Fred L. Drake, Jr.]

Post by A.M. Kuchling
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

If that's a real problem (and it might be), we might be able to use
"expanding possibilities" and the infinity sign.


-Fred

[Dylan Reinhardt]

Post by A.M. Kuchling
While I'm at it: someone suggested "Infinite possibilities" as a
slogan, and the more I think about, the better it seems.

This is drifting well into the domain of the marketing-python group,
which is starting to build some momentum on answering some big-picture
strategy questions.

It's a bit awkward to have web redesign and marketing strategy span
separate lists, but that's the division of labor we gave ourselves. :-)

The list is here:

http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python

FWIW,

Dylan

[Oktay Safak]

Post by A.M. Kuchling

The spiral is a logarithmic spiral but it's there just as an idea ...

I quite like the concept. The grey colour and outlined font also
looks quite dignified; sans-serif seems preferable.

Thanks.

Post by A.M. Kuchling
While I'm at it: someone suggested "Infinite possibilities" as a
slogan, and the more I think about, the better it seems. It's short,
only two words long, and it captures the wide range of applications
Python spans, from teaching kids to program, to writing quick one-off
scripts, to building elaborate business-critical systems. It lends
itself to logo ideas (infinity symbols, open spirals, infinite lines).
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

What about "Endless possibilities"? It doesn't sound as good as your
suggestion though.

Regards,

Oktay

[Todd Grimason]

Post by Oktay Safak
The spiral is a logarithmic spiral but it's there just as an idea and I

I have to say the first thing that came to my mind is Debian:
http://www.debian.org/

Perhaps newcomers to programming, Windows-only users, and CTO types won't confuse them, but chances are anyone with much familiarity with the Linux world will surely call it. (Or worse perhaps, think it's "Debian Python" or some such beast).

Umm, sorry I don't have anything better to offer at the moment, just wanted to throw that out there...

[Guido van Rossum]

Agreed, that kills the spiral idea for me.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

[Oktay Safak]

Post by Guido van Rossum
Agreed, that kills the spiral idea for me.

Hey, I got my first BDFL pronouncement, thanks :-)

...and what about the infinity symbol being the logo of MS Visual Studio?
Does it kill that idea too?

Best Regards,

Oktay

[Guido van Rossum]

Post by Oktay Safak
...and what about the infinity symbol being the logo of MS Visual Studio?
Does it kill that idea too?

I don't like that much either; infinity symbols have been overused
(and not just by MS).

BTW, I'd rather not have to review any more logo submissions for a
while. I suggest that the webdesign committee set up a procedure for
choosing a logo that only gives me the three final choices of some
committee. :-)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

[Oktay Safak]

Post by Todd Grimason

Post by Oktay Safak
The spiral is a logarithmic spiral but it's there just as an idea and I

http://www.debian.org/

Oh, of course, I missed it! Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,

Oktay

[Tim Parkin]

Post by Dylan Reinhardt
This is drifting well into the domain of the marketing-python group,
which is starting to build some momentum on answering some big-picture
strategy questions.
It's a bit awkward to have web redesign and marketing strategy span
separate lists, but that's the division of labor we gave ourselves.

:-)

As much as there is a lot of crossover, I think the two have differing
remits just as a marketing department and a design work together but
address very different issues.

In my experience, marketing is about the message, design about the
delivery. Also I think the connection between design and site structure
is one that is often overlooked. Although it is true that the structure
of the information will dictate a lot of the architecture for the site,
it is also true that the way in which the site is designed will apply
various constraints on how the data *can* be organised/delivered.

A simple example is the current site where the navigational groupings
allowing global navigation (top), hierarchial list of navigational
elements (left menu) and ad-hoc links and doc-contents.

If the site were more like the peoplesoft site, there are five or six
navigational groupings on the home page alone. Each of these has a
different intensity to the user and these can come to mean things such
as the bottom left box is announcements and the bottom right box
tutorials/forum messages or whatever. It also gives room to push one
message very hard (the central image, title and text) this is typically
used to show that the site has undergone a major change or that a major
event is happening, adding the feeling of how 'dynamic' the site is.

Furthermore, the logo is part of this as it dictates a certain amount of
the look and feel of the site and hence what message it will portray.
This is only true if you actually think a look and feel can influence
how people perceive something (although my first impressions tend to
last, sometimes unconciously).

In this vein it would be very, very beneficial to gain an idea of who
are the decision makers and what their opinions/likes/hates are. The
feedback from Guido about the list of sites is very useful in a
situation where people are contributing to the design but can only say
whether they like or dislike something but not why. To this end I
propose setting up a few 'polls' to gather opinions on certain issues. I
only intend to set up a couple every week and they should only take 2 or
3 minutes to fill in (I'll make them a form with select boxes for scores
and an email submission). If people feel this is a dreadful idea then
speak up otherwise I'll set the first one up tomorrow.

In the meantime heres a couple of logo's (can't resist now) :-

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

Tim

[Dylan Reinhardt]

Post by Tim Parkin
In my experience, marketing is about the message, design about the
delivery.

True enough. You make a number of fine points about the array of issues
that this group can (and should) take on.

I made a comment because this list was starting to task itself with
developing a *slogan* for Python. That's deep into message territory.

The slogan discussion was the only thing I meant to flag and hadn't
intended to imply anything beyond that.

Just clarifying... :-)

Dylan

[Tim Parkin]

Post by Guido van Rossum
BTW, I'd rather not have to review any more logo submissions for a
while. I suggest that the webdesign committee set up a procedure for
choosing a logo that only gives me the three final choices of some
committee. :-)

Without contributing it's difficult to know what you might like. As a
half way house could you tell us maybe 3 logos that you do like so we
can have a guage of both ends of the scale?

As I was getting at in my last e-mail, it's difficult to know what
direction to head in creating a design without a brief, but even more
difficult without any feedback from the decision makers, but if that's
the way it has to be then fair enough. Does this apply to web site
designs/information architecture also? Finally ;-) ... who else are
decision makers as far as the design goes (Just is, I presume) Is there
anyone else that we might solicit opinion from / explain possibilities
to?

Tim Parkin

[Guido van Rossum]

Post by Tim Parkin
Without contributing it's difficult to know what you might like. As a
half way house could you tell us maybe 3 logos that you do like so we
can have a guage of both ends of the scale?

No. My brother knows what I will like, he's on the committee headed
by Thomas. I need to get out of the logo reviewing business NOW.

Post by Tim Parkin
As I was getting at in my last e-mail, it's difficult to know what
direction to head in creating a design without a brief, but even more
difficult without any feedback from the decision makers, but if that's
the way it has to be then fair enough.

Talk to the committee. They may have their own idea on how to get to
a design.

Post by Tim Parkin
Does this apply to web site
designs/information architecture also?

Less so; that's an area where you all have done very useful work.

Post by Tim Parkin
Finally ;-) ... who else are
decision makers as far as the design goes (Just is, I presume) Is there
anyone else that we might solicit opinion from / explain possibilities
to?

I posted the names on the committee already.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

[Tim Parkin]

Post by Fred L. Drake, Jr.

Post by A.M. Kuchling
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

If that's a real problem (and it might be), we might be able to use
"expanding possibilities" and the infinity sign.
-Fred

In that vein

Loading Image...

Tim

[Fred L. Drake, Jr.]

Post by Tim Parkin
In that vein
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python8.gif

Hey, I like that one!


-Fred

[Walter Dörwald]

Post by Fred L. Drake, Jr.

Post by Tim Parkin
In that vein
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python8.gif

Hey, I like that one!

Here's a new bunch of logo attempts, done by our
designer Peter B?ker:

Loading Image...

Bye,
Walter D?rwald

[Tim Parkin]

Post by Fred L. Drake, Jr.

Post by A.M. Kuchling
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

If that's a real problem (and it might be), we might be able to use
"expanding possibilities" and the infinity sign.
-Fred

In that vein

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python8.gif

Tim

[Tim Parkin]

Post by Fred L. Drake, Jr.

Post by A.M. Kuchling
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

If that's a real problem (and it might be), we might be able to use
"expanding possibilities" and the infinity sign.

I've mocked a page up with the expanding possibilities strapline...

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python.html

Still some work to do to get it how I really want it but I think it's a
start.

Tim Parkin

[Dylan Reinhardt]

Post by Tim Parkin

Post by Fred L. Drake, Jr.

Post by A.M. Kuchling
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

If that's a real problem (and it might be), we might be able to use
"expanding possibilities" and the infinity sign.

I've mocked a page up with the expanding possibilities strapline...

This is a gorgeous page and very well organized. Huge kudos on that.

But once more, *please* don't introduce a slogan. I know that Python
*should* have one and you've identified exactly where it should go and
what it should probably look like... but don't just make one up.

The site can really use a new look, but this is not the proper time or
place to be setting our strategic agenda.

Dylan

[Trevor Toenjes]

WOW!!!! ...should say it all.

Kudos Tim. You got your game on...

The direction for the homepage is nearly dead on for execution.
Brilliant. The concept is very strong. I havent seen anything proposed
come this close to what python needs.
Thank you for the time and thought commitment to develop this mockup and
bring some real creative to the table. It's very lightweight and could be
easily maintained and updated.

I dont care particularly for the logo or the tagline. I think we can be
more unique than infinities and nautilus shapes. And I am not particularly
fond of integrating a symbol into a logo, and prefer strong fontography for
longevity. Which, by the way, you are doing pretty good exploring the font
choices. I still think a Gilliam-esque influence should be explored. :)

IMHO, any symbology should be able to stand on its own for python's
identity, and I am not sure you can do that with the infinity symbol.

The tagline is also weak and there needs to be more discussion and new ideas
before that is nailed. Consider a descriptor to help first timers "get it"
faster.

-Trevor

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 6:01 PM
Cc: 'Pydotorg-Redesign'
Subject: RE: [Pydotorg-redesign] Some logo attempts

Post by Fred L. Drake, Jr.

Post by A.M. Kuchling
Unfortunately there's already a company with the same name
(www.ip-wizard.com).

If that's a real problem (and it might be), we might be able to use
"expanding possibilities" and the infinity sign.

I've mocked a page up with the expanding possibilities strapline...
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python.html
Still some work to do to get it how I really want it but I think it's a
start.
Tim Parkin
_______________________________________________
Pydotorg-redesign mailing list
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign

[Trevor Toenjes]

Since it looks like efforts and opinions are being scattered, here are some
tactical suggestions to get back on track...

1. An identity analysis needs to be completed to summarize what the logo
needs to communicate to its viewers. If we cant agree on this, then no one
will agree on the final design, because you are all shooting in different
directions from completely different angles. In order to be truly
effective as a volunteer group, you have to come to an agreement on a
direction.

VERY IMPORTANT: The summary needs to include prioritizing the various
needs, so there is no confusion on how to weight the selection criteria.

The summary can include..."quirky style to show uniqueness" vs. "it must
look corporate in the style of contemporary American business identities"
OR keywords like
...flexible, powerful, fun, geeky, sophisticated, international
The final criteria needs to be precise and not too inclusive.

2. All logos should be developed in black and white first. After final
acceptance, then a color palette can be developed. If it doesn't work in
black and white, then it needs to be tossed out.

3. Each submitted logo needs to be accompanied by a positioning explanation
about what particularly need is being met by the design and how the designer
believes that is being communicated visually.



NOTE: Sub-Branding.
Remember, after THE LOGO is selected, then variations on the theme can be
developed for the various segments.
examples:
Python Community could have some fun color variation.
Python Powered.
Python Documentation can have a variation.
The PSF can have its own variation on the main theme, with a variation on
the colors.

The decision is a Marketing decision, and not a web design decision. I am
concerned that this effort is fragmented on 2 lists and may not include
individuals that have valuable positioning and direction input. hence the
cross-post. I think all logo and identity discussions should be confined to
the marketing list.

This discussion should not stall pydot-redesign in anyway, and is probably a
distraction. If it is redeveloped conservatively, then redoing the look and
feel (skins/templates) later will be trivial, once the new logo and
color-palette is selected. There is much informational architecture and
other things to do while a logo is being developed.

And if this still fails to produce results that everyone is happy with, then
consider accessing real creative design talent. (I can help with that if the
time comes.) An agency would still require us to complete Step 1 before
they do 2 and 3.

Meanwhile, don't be too critical on each other. Face it, there is no top
agency-level creative talent on this list. I don't expect a typical python
developer to have the skills to design a logo and identity that meets the
strategic needs to move Python forward on a global marketing scale. But we
should have fun winging it, like most non-funded marketing activities. :)

Cheers,
Trevor

[Laura Creighton]

Somebody asked me once what I wanted from the Marketing Python mailing list.
answer:

Notes like these. Something more substantial and sophisticated than
'i know the markets, and I have an opinion, and you should like mine
because i say so'.

So -- How do we make an identity analysis?

Laura
.........

Post by Trevor Toenjes
Since it looks like efforts and opinions are being scattered, here are so
me
tactical suggestions to get back on track...
1. An identity analysis needs to be completed to summarize what the logo
needs to communicate to its viewers. If we cant agree on this, then no o
ne
will agree on the final design, because you are all shooting in different
directions from completely different angles. In order to be truly
effective as a volunteer group, you have to come to an agreement on a
direction.
VERY IMPORTANT: The summary needs to include prioritizing the various
needs, so there is no confusion on how to weight the selection criteria.
The summary can include..."quirky style to show uniqueness" vs. "it must
look corporate in the style of contemporary American business identities"
OR keywords like
...flexible, powerful, fun, geeky, sophisticated, international
The final criteria needs to be precise and not too inclusive.
2. All logos should be developed in black and white first. After final
acceptance, then a color palette can be developed. If it doesn't work in
black and white, then it needs to be tossed out.
3. Each submitted logo needs to be accompanied by a positioning explanat
ion
about what particularly need is being met by the design and how the desig
ner
believes that is being communicated visually.
NOTE: Sub-Branding.
Remember, after THE LOGO is selected, then variations on the theme can be
developed for the various segments.
Python Community could have some fun color variation.
Python Powered.
Python Documentation can have a variation.
The PSF can have its own variation on the main theme, with a variation on
the colors.
The decision is a Marketing decision, and not a web design decision. I a
m
concerned that this effort is fragmented on 2 lists and may not include
individuals that have valuable positioning and direction input. hence th
e
cross-post. I think all logo and identity discussions should be confined to
the marketing list.
This discussion should not stall pydot-redesign in anyway, and is probabl
y a
distraction. If it is redeveloped conservatively, then redoing the look and
feel (skins/templates) later will be trivial, once the new logo and
color-palette is selected. There is much informational architecture and
other things to do while a logo is being developed.
And if this still fails to produce results that everyone is happy with, t
hen
consider accessing real creative design talent. (I can help with that if the
time comes.) An agency would still require us to complete Step 1 before
they do 2 and 3.
Meanwhile, don't be too critical on each other. Face it, there is no top
agency-level creative talent on this list. I don't expect a typical pyt
hon
developer to have the skills to design a logo and identity that meets the
strategic needs to move Python forward on a global marketing scale. But we
)
Cheers,
Trevor
_______________________________________________
marketing-python mailing list
http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python

[Kevin Altis]

From: Trevor Toenjes
The decision is a Marketing decision, and not a web design decision. I am
concerned that this effort is fragmented on 2 lists and may not include
individuals that have valuable positioning and direction input. hence the
cross-post. I think all logo and identity discussions should be
confined to
the marketing list.
This discussion should not stall pydot-redesign in anyway, and is
probably a
distraction. If it is redeveloped conservatively, then redoing
the look and
feel (skins/templates) later will be trivial, once the new logo and
color-palette is selected. There is much informational architecture and
other things to do while a logo is being developed.

I'll second this. The logo process can happen in parallel with the overall
redesign and should be confined to the marketing-python list rather than
being cross-posted. If Just isn't already on marketing-python, then when
there is something that he should take a look at, we'll cc him.

ka